Their employer is treating them like a tipped employee, which is so embedded into society’s fabric that we have a separate tax code for it.
You not liking that is not any different from you liking a given law. You’re free to not participate, but expect there to be consequences, and one of those is for people to assume you’re intentionally being an asshole, not protesting a perceived injustice.
I’m in Canada where the minimum wage is the same for all employees, regardless of tips or not (with one small exception in Quebec, where it’s $10.80 instead of $13.50).
I just looked up the US law and it seems so circular. There’s a smaller minimum for those considered ‘tipped employees’, but the definition of ‘tipped employee’ is one who makes at least $30/month in tips in general.
So you could say it’s incumbent on customers to pity these employees and top up their salaries, but it seems just as reasonable to stop tipping them so they no longer fit that definition and they get the actual minimum wage.
In other words, they only get a smaller minimum wage because they prefer being tipped employees. If they didn’t, they would just refuse the tips.
Welcome to unbridled capitalism!!! It is a complete shit show.
Tipping has been a evil system from the first tip ever. It’s portrayed as a way to “appreciate good service” but in reality, it is about enforcing the power dynamic of rich over poor, and belittling those below you.
Servers make vastly more than min wage. I generally had $0 paychecks because taxes were higher than my hourly
It’s not about pity. It’s a socially accepted standard of certain service roles. Servers are generally against removing tipping because they make more by being tipped than they would hourly.
For every person that tips small, someone will inevitably tip over the expected value, generally more often than not. A flat 18% upcharge on food to pay for a server is generally robbing the server.
I feel like everything you said supports my point. You’re not in favour of tipping because it’s the morally right thing to do, or because you altruistically support hard workers. You’re in favour of it because you personally make a shit ton more money.
And it completely avoids my point that if you think you deserve that money (which I agree you do) then you should take it up with your employer instead of shaking down customers through guilt.
certain service roles
This is really the heart of it. I’m sorry but no role is more deserving of tips than another. Everyone deserves a living wage paid by their employer. If you truly believed in rewarding good service with good pay, you would want to abolish the tipping system and advocate for all workers being paid a living wage regardless of tips. You can’t just support the industry that you personally work in and say you care about fair pay.
You’re not in favour of tipping because it’s the morally right thing to do, or because you altruistically support hard workers. You’re in favour of it because you personally make a shit ton more money.
I’m in favor of it because it helps everyone involved. There is no one that tipping is bad for.
This is really the heart of it. I’m sorry but no role is more deserving of tips than another. Everyone deserves a living wage paid by their employer.
All wages are paid by consumers. If the price of going to a restaurant increases by 25% and servers aren’t tipped, I assure you that every person involved is having a worse experience
People will go to restaurants less, more restaurants will fail, fewer people will work as servers, and they’ll work longer hours (similar to BOH). You can see this played out in countries that do not tip - and also with jobs like catering that generally do not focus on topping for service.
What won’t happen is the restaurant owners themselves won’t be paying servers more from their own pocket. This is also observable anywhere tipping isn’t a thing
Idk what meme or podcast or whatever convinced people that tipping culture is bad, but absolutely none of the arguments make any sense. If they did, I could be persuaded, but most points are just completely ignorant of the reality of working in a restaurant and the rest seem like they’re specifically designed to manipulate you.
It’s on employers to pay their employees a fair wage
I’m in favor of it because it helps everyone involved. There is no one that tipping is bad for.
Uh… what about the people actually paying the tip? How on earth is it beneficial for the person paying more money for the level of service they should be getting regardless? How is that extra $3 more important to the server than to the person losing it?
All wages are paid by consumers.
Yes, indirectly, not directly. When I buy a burger at McDonald’s, the corporation takes my money and distributes it across all their expenses, including employee salary. If they distribute it so poorly that they can’t afford to give their employees a living wage, then frankly they don’t deserve to be in business. Tipping is just subsidizing the corporation’s expenses by allowing them to pay you less, then guilt-tripping the customer because the poor employee doesn’t get paid enough.
People will go to restaurants less, more restaurants will fail, fewer people will work as servers, and they’ll work longer hours
I don’t get the argument that restaurants would fail if we abolished tipping. If a burger right now costs $10 plus a 20% tip, why would customers be afraid to buy a $12 burger outright without the tip? You get paid the wage you deserve, the employer charges what they need to meet all their expenses, and there’s no hidden guilt trip for the customer. And if the business can only stay afloat by underpaying you, then good riddance.
You can see this played out in countries that do not tip - and also with jobs like catering that generally do not focus on topping for service.
So you’re advocating for all jobs to switch to a tipping model? You must be since you say it’s inherent to fair pay and good service right? Or do you personally get to gatekeep the jobs that are deserving of tips, and coincidentally it’s just the one you happen to work in?
What won’t happen is the restaurant owners themselves won’t be paying servers more from their own pocket.
But they will because there’s a federally mandated minimum wage for non-tipped employees. They’ll make the same minimum wage like everyone else (insufficient as I agree that is). You’re fine with some industries getting minimum wage, you just think you personally deserve more
most points are just completely ignorant of the reality of working in a restaurant and the rest seem like they’re specifically designed to manipulate you.
Someone’s being manipulated alright but it’s not the consumer trying to pay the listed price for the product/service. It’s very telling that you think expecting a fair wage from an employer, the payer of the wage is manipulative.
I don’t think I’m gonna convince you of any of this so I’m just gonna back out now. I hope one day you learn to redirect your frustration to the cheap ass boss who thinks an hour of your sweat is worth $2 so he can keep the other $8 (edit:) and stop shaming the customer who’s probably struggling just as much as you.
Uh… what about the people actually paying the tip? How on earth is it beneficial for the person paying more money for the level of service they should be getting regardless? How is that extra $3 more important to the server than to the person losing it?
This is the crux of the argument. You’d be paying this anyway, because servers won’t take the job for less money. No matter how you slice it, you’re spending this same amount of money.
You’re fine with some industries getting minimum wage, you just think you personally deserve more
I currently make over 6 figures and am no longer serving, because I’m nearing 40, so yes obviously some jobs are worth more than others.
I hope one day you learn to redirect your frustration to the cheap ass boss who thinks an hour of your sweat is worth $2 so he can keep the other $8
This is not how any business works, much less restaurants.
This sentiment is like denying a server a tip because you have a problem with the restaurant chain, even though you’re eating there anyway. Or, like flipping off the Amazon delivery driver because you hate Jeff Bezos.
If you think Door Dash sucks as a company, (which I do by the way) just don’t use it! But don’t screw over the delivery driver if you do decide to use it, that is wack as fuck.
It’s your employer who doesn’t treat you like humans. Stop blaming the customers for it.
The customers in this case are also treating the employee like shit.
Nope. The customers are dealing with the company. How the company treats employees is between the employer and the employee.
Their employer is treating them like a tipped employee, which is so embedded into society’s fabric that we have a separate tax code for it.
You not liking that is not any different from you liking a given law. You’re free to not participate, but expect there to be consequences, and one of those is for people to assume you’re intentionally being an asshole, not protesting a perceived injustice.
I’m in Canada where the minimum wage is the same for all employees, regardless of tips or not (with one small exception in Quebec, where it’s $10.80 instead of $13.50).
I just looked up the US law and it seems so circular. There’s a smaller minimum for those considered ‘tipped employees’, but the definition of ‘tipped employee’ is one who makes at least $30/month in tips in general.
So you could say it’s incumbent on customers to pity these employees and top up their salaries, but it seems just as reasonable to stop tipping them so they no longer fit that definition and they get the actual minimum wage.
In other words, they only get a smaller minimum wage because they prefer being tipped employees. If they didn’t, they would just refuse the tips.
Welcome to unbridled capitalism!!! It is a complete shit show.
Tipping has been a evil system from the first tip ever. It’s portrayed as a way to “appreciate good service” but in reality, it is about enforcing the power dynamic of rich over poor, and belittling those below you.
Servers make vastly more than min wage. I generally had $0 paychecks because taxes were higher than my hourly
It’s not about pity. It’s a socially accepted standard of certain service roles. Servers are generally against removing tipping because they make more by being tipped than they would hourly.
For every person that tips small, someone will inevitably tip over the expected value, generally more often than not. A flat 18% upcharge on food to pay for a server is generally robbing the server.
I feel like everything you said supports my point. You’re not in favour of tipping because it’s the morally right thing to do, or because you altruistically support hard workers. You’re in favour of it because you personally make a shit ton more money.
And it completely avoids my point that if you think you deserve that money (which I agree you do) then you should take it up with your employer instead of shaking down customers through guilt.
This is really the heart of it. I’m sorry but no role is more deserving of tips than another. Everyone deserves a living wage paid by their employer. If you truly believed in rewarding good service with good pay, you would want to abolish the tipping system and advocate for all workers being paid a living wage regardless of tips. You can’t just support the industry that you personally work in and say you care about fair pay.
I’m in favor of it because it helps everyone involved. There is no one that tipping is bad for.
All wages are paid by consumers. If the price of going to a restaurant increases by 25% and servers aren’t tipped, I assure you that every person involved is having a worse experience
People will go to restaurants less, more restaurants will fail, fewer people will work as servers, and they’ll work longer hours (similar to BOH). You can see this played out in countries that do not tip - and also with jobs like catering that generally do not focus on topping for service.
What won’t happen is the restaurant owners themselves won’t be paying servers more from their own pocket. This is also observable anywhere tipping isn’t a thing
Idk what meme or podcast or whatever convinced people that tipping culture is bad, but absolutely none of the arguments make any sense. If they did, I could be persuaded, but most points are just completely ignorant of the reality of working in a restaurant and the rest seem like they’re specifically designed to manipulate you.
This one being the most obviously manipulative
Uh… what about the people actually paying the tip? How on earth is it beneficial for the person paying more money for the level of service they should be getting regardless? How is that extra $3 more important to the server than to the person losing it?
Yes, indirectly, not directly. When I buy a burger at McDonald’s, the corporation takes my money and distributes it across all their expenses, including employee salary. If they distribute it so poorly that they can’t afford to give their employees a living wage, then frankly they don’t deserve to be in business. Tipping is just subsidizing the corporation’s expenses by allowing them to pay you less, then guilt-tripping the customer because the poor employee doesn’t get paid enough.
I don’t get the argument that restaurants would fail if we abolished tipping. If a burger right now costs $10 plus a 20% tip, why would customers be afraid to buy a $12 burger outright without the tip? You get paid the wage you deserve, the employer charges what they need to meet all their expenses, and there’s no hidden guilt trip for the customer. And if the business can only stay afloat by underpaying you, then good riddance.
So you’re advocating for all jobs to switch to a tipping model? You must be since you say it’s inherent to fair pay and good service right? Or do you personally get to gatekeep the jobs that are deserving of tips, and coincidentally it’s just the one you happen to work in?
But they will because there’s a federally mandated minimum wage for non-tipped employees. They’ll make the same minimum wage like everyone else (insufficient as I agree that is). You’re fine with some industries getting minimum wage, you just think you personally deserve more
Someone’s being manipulated alright but it’s not the consumer trying to pay the listed price for the product/service. It’s very telling that you think expecting a fair wage from an employer, the payer of the wage is manipulative.
I don’t think I’m gonna convince you of any of this so I’m just gonna back out now. I hope one day you learn to redirect your frustration to the cheap ass boss who thinks an hour of your sweat is worth $2 so he can keep the other $8 (edit:) and stop shaming the customer who’s probably struggling just as much as you.
This is the crux of the argument. You’d be paying this anyway, because servers won’t take the job for less money. No matter how you slice it, you’re spending this same amount of money.
I currently make over 6 figures and am no longer serving, because I’m nearing 40, so yes obviously some jobs are worth more than others.
This is not how any business works, much less restaurants.
This sentiment is like denying a server a tip because you have a problem with the restaurant chain, even though you’re eating there anyway. Or, like flipping off the Amazon delivery driver because you hate Jeff Bezos.
If you think Door Dash sucks as a company, (which I do by the way) just don’t use it! But don’t screw over the delivery driver if you do decide to use it, that is wack as fuck.
If you don’t don’t like relying on tips get a different job?
I do not work for, or rely on tips. I’m just pointing this out because it is the morally correct thing to do.
If you don’t like people relying on tips, pick up your own food?
Jesus this thread is chock full of people who have never worked in the service industry. Astonishing entitlement