If depression is the emotional expression of the immobilization response, then the solution is to move out of that state of defense. Porges believes it is not enough to simply remove the threat. Rather, the nervous system has to detect robust signals of safety to bring the social state back online. The best way to do that? Social connection.
For people who don’t prefer social connection, I’ve seen that exercise works well
Edit: just want to highlight that polyvagal theory, the main point behind this article, is unsubstantiated thus far
All my and my wifes depression come from problems that we cannot really solve. I mean when there is a source of depression I don’t really see a solution until the source is rectified. If your depressed because your homeless and living on the streets talking with people will not get rid of it.
I spent quite a while paying for therapy to overcome depression.
Problem was that my depression was basically just caused by poverty: Too poor to afford healthy food, a car, a living situation that didn’t include unstable abusive narcissists causing me stress, lack of sleep, constantly guilt tripping me for things I had no control over, shaming me for enjoying anything they didn’t approve of, telling me I have mental issues.
So … what I need is money, a fresh start, a new living sitch… and I am paying a bunch of money for my therapist to also become depressed at my situation and just give me the same CBT exercises I already know.
Why did I pay for all those sessions?
Oh right, my roommates were gaslighting me.
I am currently extremely not depressed now that I am finally faaaaar away from them.
Literally the reason why I don’t bother. What’s the point to feel content that my father is a disappointment or that I feel like one dispite the fact i felt I made all the right choices in life. No spending that cash on therapy is not going to make all the issues go away. It will just make me feel like it’s acceptable? F that. My problems wouldn’t be an issue if I had more money.
I just had the same experience with therapy and psychiatry. Even Zoloft does nothing, it might dull it slightly but it doesn’t fix the problems underlying my depression.
I make $77,000 a year, and I’m living the same as a person making minimum wage in the 70s.
I have a side job too, and I’m still struggling to just feed myself and pay rent. I don’t know how people working serving and retail jobs are even affording to live inside.
There is absolutely a difference between situational acute depression and generalized chronic depression — and they require different approaches
I suppose the response to that would be that the social interactions which makes you anxious are unhealthy social interactions, And that, instead, you should be having social interactions that don’t cause anxiety for you.
Of course, without knowing more, that’s just speculation.
Sane response to an insane world…
Depression has many causes:
- For once, people work too much. It exhausts the body and we feel tired.
- For two, there’s the meaninglessness of life. It’s difficult to stay motivated when nothing makes sense/there is no future.
- Thirdly, positive sexual experiences strongly cure depression. Since the dating market is largely fucked (no pun intended), well that option doesn’t exist to large parts of the population.
- Fourtly we’re socialized to hide depression. As everybody knows, the first step to solve a problem is to recognize it exists. Stigmatization of depression has held back effective treatment for way too long.
Fourtly we’re socialized to hide depression. As everybody knows, the first step to solve a problem is to recognize it exists. Stigmatization of depression has held back effective treatment for way too long.
“Hey, how’s it going?”
“Good, you?”
Honesty about our emotional state (with people who aren’t trusted friends / partners) is programmed out of us by social norms.
Start telling people the truth to that question and watch them flee
You’ll separate your friends from your good friends.
Or find out that you don’t have any true friends
I sometimes tell people “it’s complicated” to test the waters if I want to be truly honest it not.
Like the joke the mother tells around the dinner table in Good Fellas. The punchline was something like, “Shut up, you’re always talking.”
“Hey, how’s it going?”
<Grins ear-to-ear.>
<Rotates head 720 degrees.>
Overworked is my depression.
I once was a recluse I didn’t go out for months at a time. Most mentally lucid and healthy I’ve felt.
Porges believes
This is an interesting article and yet you’ve chosen to quote the most speculative unscientific part of it from the final paragraph.
“Have you tried going outside” is not a scientific cure for depression.
That’s not what it’s saying at all, it’s talking about immobilization as a survival strategy as induced by the body’s neurophysiology, think of it as another option after flight vs fight responses.
Here’s the report mentioned in the article https://explore.bps.org.uk/content/report-guideline/bpsrep.2020.rep133
Edit looking closely, the report itself doesn’t mention anything about the immobilization defense.
Edit2 so on further review, I agree that this article is low quality. Apologies, was just browsing while half asleep and thought it was interesting
Polyvagal theory itself does not seem promising so far. Oh well, editing this post to highlight that…
think of it as another option after flight vs fight responses
Usually expressed as fight, flight or freeze…
The article resonated with me, and I’m glad you posted it. Thank you.
I get more depression around people. I do better in the woods all by myself. My protection is to get away from people. I don’t feel lonely or alienated in solitude.
People don’t depress me, but I only have so much charge on my social battery. And yeah, seems we’re the odd ones regarding the outdoors. When people first meet me, they often comment about my running around the creeks and swamps alone.
“Aren’t you worried about (panthers, gators, bears, serial killers) ?!”
“Uh, no, they’re rare enough and I carry a gun if it comes to it.”
Great. On top of thinking me fruity, now I’m an armed fruit.
Here people ask if I’m worried about bears. No , they’re worried about me. You’re way more likely to get mugged in the city than mauled in the woods. I have bear spray just in case.
City people might be at greater risk, being more likely to start filming if they see a bear. Or trying to get a selfie with it.
Less likely to do that with a mugger! Lol
Yeah, look at the cute bear. Idiots.
What’s wrong with responsibly owning a firearm?
I really fucking hate this culture of us Left-leaning people looking at firearm ownership as stupid; meanwhile we are surrounded by armed unhinged racists, bible-thumping violent anti-LGBTQ religious fanatics, skinhead right-wing cops and we hope those fascist protect us if Republicans riot violently.
So fucking dumb to think deterrence is bad.
Context. Open carrying an ak47 in walmart in a suburb is weird and douchey and should be criticized. Keeping a shotgun at your cabin in the woods or carrying a sidearm while hiking in the middle of nowhere is smart.
Open carrying an ak47 in walmart in a suburb is weird
Is this an exaggeration for effect, or something that’s actually legal in some places?
Yes, it’s legal in much of the US. Many states require a permit for concealed carry, but not for open carry. WalMart has signs at the front of the store “requesting” people not to open carry, but apparently not prohibiting it.
Lmao. That’s freakin’ bizarre.
Walmart sells guns.
US defaultism? In most western countries people don’t, and aren’t allowed to, carry guns.
When people are told that depression is an aberration, we are telling them that they are not part of the tribe. They are not right, they don’t belong. That’s when their shame deepens and they avoid social connection.
And that’s not the only reason people are made to feel they’re not part of the tribe, that they don’t belong. There are many things in this modern (post modern?) world that cause us to become alienated from other people, even and especially those in our own community. The nature of community itself has changed. Many relationships and social institutions feel more tenuous or impermanent.
It’s a vicious cycle: people feel alienated from others, it causes them stress, the stress causes anxiety, that leads to the immobilization response and depression, the effects of the anxiety and depression cause people to become further alienated from others, and the process accelerates and perpetuates.
I have to somewhat agree with the author. My experience and understanding of depression is that it is more of a (sometimes very persistent) symptom than an underlying cause. Ideally, we would all have the guidance to deal with depressing scenarios, but similar to dissociation during trauma, our mind defaults back to disconnection to limit the pain.
I’m not saying this is every case, but I do think as a society we could view depression more as a coping strategy, and try to replace it with healthier practices. After time, it takes more time and effort and support to replace those coping strategies, but that is essentially what psychotherapy does.
I think too often in the modern world people tend to just shrug and say “this is who I am,” instead of trying to improve their coping skills and quality of life. Like another commentor mentions, this becomes a feedback loop of depression feeding depression and takes immense support and effort to curve and should absolutely not be shamed.
Seems to be an ambitious rethinking of depression. As someone diagnosed bi-polar, I’ll watch the development of this idea with interest.
But if the threat continues indefinitely and there is no way to fight or flee, the immobilization response continues. And since the response also changes brain activity, it impacts how people’s emotions and their ability to solve problems. People feel like they can’t get moving physically or mentally, they feel hopeless and helpless. That’s depression
[…]
Immobilization has an important role. It dulls pain and makes us feel disconnected. Think of a rabbit hanging limply in the fox’s mouth: that rabbit is shutting down so it won’t suffer too badly when the fox eats it. And the immobilization response also has a metabolic effect, slowing the metabolism and switching the body to ketosis. Some doctors speculate that this metabolic state could help to heal severe illness.
I could see this being the case. If I hate my job and have no other prospects on the horizon, my getting angry at stupid decisions by mgmt threaten my ability to preserve my position. But sarcastically resenting them keep me in stasis. I don’t think that’s a great analogy for what is being described here, but that’s what I’ve got off the cuff.
I feel exactly like that rabbit right now. Getting squeezed from every angle
I dropped 20 lb this summer, down to an unhealthy weight now…
I hope you’re able to find help.
Been trying for years, working with a psychiatrist and therapist. They can’t solve the situational causes though
Then I wish you luck.
It costs money to find people that don’t suck.
Interesting, elaborate
Idk their point, but if you aren’t in a city finding people costs money in travel at minimum, but also trying to go places to meet new people is typically a cost as well.
Cost of living.
One generally pays the cost of living whether they’re meeting new people or not.
Can money solve that problem? I don’t think so. It would help a bit, but surely not to a point that makes the significant difference.
