• sky@codesink.io
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    1 year ago

    Apple: only implements a proprietary graphics API

    Also Apple: Why does no one make games for my platform??

    • mingistech@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Luckily it plays on Apple Silicon Macs beautifully through CrossOver. In the MacGaming sub users are getting 100+fps.

      • redfellow@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        It does, but Valve doesn’t spend money in taking any responsibility over it. Also I presume anticheat might not work properly.

        In any scenario, the translation layer has a performance impact which for any competitive player is something that makes Apple a no-go.

          • redfellow@sopuli.xyz
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            1 year ago

            Because, again, they don’t want bad press when the translation layer doesn’t play ball with anticheat, or some other tech.

        • mingistech@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That’s funny because my son compared CS2 on my MacBook Pro vs his RTX 3060 PC build we put together last winter and he said how much more responsive the game felt on the Mac.

          • redfellow@sopuli.xyz
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            1 year ago

            That it works is one thing. That it always works as expected is another. Apple doesn’t want to take responsibility for that, and neither does Valve, when there’s not enough paying customers on that platform. It is what it is. Now the Proton layer is one thing, because Valve is selling Steam Decks. They will want that to become a big thing. They’ll go back to selling Steam Boxes (the living room console thing).

            If Apple wants to ride that wave, they could.

            • mingistech@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Yes, CodeWeavers takes responsibility, Crossover is their product. Same company that originally created Proton for Valve. Solid product.

                • mingistech@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  We were discussing who supports the product. But interestingly CodeWeavers is responsible for over two-thirds of all commits to Wine, and the company also employs Wine’s primary maintainer, Alexandre Julliard, as its CTO.

                • Aatube@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  CS:GO had anticheat and was on Mac for ages. Granted they updated it to Live, but the underlying principles of design are still the same.

                • mingistech@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  No you’re wrong. MP works just fine in CS2.

                  No need to have a meltdown because Mac users are enjoying the game too. lol.

      • sky@codesink.io
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        1 year ago

        They ship an outdated and unreliable implementation 😅 There are things that use it, but my understanding is you couldn’t use it in the same way you can on other platforms.

        • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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          1 year ago

          Is it not still maintained and the simplest graphics API available of the big three?

          I learned that OpenGL is no longer maintained on Mac. I understand it’s on a might work but no guarantee status and no help if it breaks.

  • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    So…how long before Apple realizes that game devs are notoriously time-crunched and forcing them to target yet another proprietary graphics API is a stupid move for their gaming ambitions?

    • ampersandrew@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I’m not convinced they’ll ever realize the problem with their strategy. They’ll keep half-assing it every couple of years and wondering why they don’t have a larger gaming audience.

      • Dr. Bluefall@toast.ooo
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        1 year ago

        It’s because they’re addicted to their walled gardens. Everything within Apple’s ecosystem must be tightly overseen and controlled, with little exception.

      • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, they keep trying to bring their walled-garden approach to gaming and it just won’t work. It’s like trying to build another console in the current gaming market and unrealistically expecting it to take off.

        It’s also why I think the Vision Pro, despite how cool and innovative the tech might be, is also DOA.

  • i_cant_sports@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Was CS:GO available natively on Mac? If so, this is unfortunate news for the small subset of Mac users who played, since CS:GO is now no more.

    • dlok@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Can you explain this joke, seen it more than once guessing she was used in apple marketing?

      • KickAssDuke@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Whoopie got mad and called out Blizzard for not releasing Diablo 4 on Mac. I think it was on tiktok.

        "This is what I’m asking you, Blizzard Entertainment,” Goldberg said, “This is Whoopi. You know how much I love Diablo. I would like y’all to let those of us who use our [Macs] to play. Allow us to play on the Apple. Take Diablo IV and let us do it and have a great time.”

        https://kotaku.com/diablo-4-iv-for-mac-whoopi-goldberg-upset-blizzard-port-1850519443

        • Zahille7@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          This is hilarious to me for some reason. Like, goddamn Whoopi Goldberg loves Diablo so much (and on a Mac no less) that she went and called them out on a public tiktok?

          That’s awesome.

  • naught@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    Honestly? Kinda hate cs2. It runs worse (3080ti btw), most of my smoke grenades no longer work, they removed team deathmatch, they removed short competitive matches, and you can no longer play csgo. The more I play the less I’m a fan

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I get the feeling it was pushed out before everything was ready. I am willing to bet that all these missing features are coming later. Not sure why they didn’t just wait before pushing out the game. The smokes are just different, players just need to adapt to new mechanics instead of using the same grenade tactics that they’ve memorized for years.

      • naught@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Yeah they haven’t confirmed whether these features are making it back I believe, but they really ought to and I expect they will too. Smokes Im fine with. Mostly just annoying since the game feels almost identical to GO. A lot of smokes still work too so it’s kinda trial and error to find which ones work now and dont.

        I also find it annoying I can no longer see how much I damaged an enemy via console, but that’s fair enough too.

        • Freeman@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          The fact that CS2 feels, looks and plays the same as GO did was the biggest aim by valve and wish from players. This was the goal: Redo the game in a new engine. Thats what they did. We can argue if there are inportant features missing or not, but the same feel but reworked smokes is both a feature which most of dedicated players wished for

          • naught@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I am in that camp, honestly! I just miss my old features and there are some quirks and growing pains. I really miss most of all short competitive. It was much lower stress and commitment. I can only play so many games and to be stuck in a one-sided long one feels bad. I am just a bit underwhelmed overall, but perhaps it is my expectations.

          • kratoz29@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Huh, I thought this was an entirely different game… is this a similar scenario of what happened with the Warcraft III remake?

            • poke@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              It’s on a new engine and is technically a new game but Valve overwrote cs:go to make the inventory changeover work afaik. Lots of people seem to not know about the beta option to play GO, I think Valve should make a better process to access it so more people know that it’s an option.

        • Dandroid@dandroid.app
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          1 year ago

          Well now that I think about it, I never played CS GO on this laptop, so I have nothing to compare against.

          • naught@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I would say it runs “fine”. Just far worse than such a visually unimpressive game should (I don’t play cs for graphics anyway). The whole release feels like a dud. Feels like they pulled an Overwatch 2:

            Replace the old game, remove a ton of stuff people liked (at least I liked). I’ll still play - it’s not terrible - but it feels lacking

        • adaveinthelife@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          3080ti here at 3440x1440 and I don’t think I’ve ever dipped below 150 FPS, and whenever I look it’s in the mid 200’s

    • PixxlMan@lemmy.world
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      I think much missing stuff is going to be coming. I think they just didn’t want to delay CS2 any longer. CSGO is still playable from the properties panel. You can enable a legacy CSGO mode. Not sure about matchmaking though.

      On my 3060ti with max everything I always have over 200 fps, but yes, definitely not as fast as CSGO still. What fps are you getting?

      • naught@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        It seems odd not to have TDM from the outset. I somehow doubt turning off team damage or shortening the match length requires a huge dev lift. Maybe some surrounding infrastructure but still. On the FPS, I’ll have to check! It feels like a lot lower than 200. I only have 144hz anyway so it must be worse than that

  • Gianni R@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    I think everyone would rather development effort for games go into Linux as opposed to macOS.

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    1 year ago

    As a Mac user, I’m fine with this tbh. I don’t game on my Mac and most people I know with one don’t either.

  • bentropy@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    Wow you guys hate apple more than I do and I really think they’re overpriced but okay hard and software for people with other needs. The apple users I know don’t really think about gaming at all, wondering how many seriously do.

    • Cornelius@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      The hatred has nothing to do with the products but the lack of participation in open standards like OpenGL or Vulkan.

      Their products are incredibly well made (though I’d fuckin hope so given the pricing) and their software experience (barring the lack of good graphics API support) is quite nice.

    • Kata1yst@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      You mean repackaged Wine that they’re pretending to have invented? Yeah should do.

      • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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        1 year ago

        Really just repackaged Proton, with some ridiculous install requirements including fucking Homebrew.

        It’s not even Alpha level software right now. But, just to argue their side: it is meant as a preview for game developers to package their games with right now, and not the general public.

        Still… Fucking Homebrew.

        • smoothbrain coldtakes@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Okay but it’s like, what other package managers exist on MacOS?

          Obviously they’re going to include Homebrew to fulfill dependencies in a more curated way than just bringing them down with the installer itself.

          • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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            1 year ago

            I guess I don’t really like the idea of a large company using a tool like Homebrew, I feel at that point they should write/include their own package manager.

            I might be sounding pedantic, so feel free to ignore me if you’re a Homebrew fan, but it just irks me that the package manager is installed via curl’ing a shell script from their github project, and that the entire repo itself is stored on Github.

            Even Microsoft has winget; dunno why a company the size of Apple can’t just roll a proper, secure way to distribute packages.

            Also, as far as other package managers go, there’s Macports.

              • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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                1 year ago

                Sure, exactly. So why do I need to install a third party CLI package manager for a first party suite of tools?

                Like, xcode-select is able to grab dependencies. There’s no reason why a similar binary can’t be delivered with the porting sdk.

          • Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            There’s MacPorts but Homebrew is by far the most common package manager on MacOS. I wouldn’t use Homebrew on Linux personally but it’s great on Mac

      • Dym Sohin@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        just install windows-version of steam, and a windows-version of CS:2, same way wine on linux works for blizzard launcher

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s meant more to help developers with their porting efforts though, not really meant for normal users like Valve’s doing with Proton.

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    1 year ago

    And there’s nothing wrong with this. While I’d love to see companies develop games that run on all of the main three OSes, there is cost involved. And Valve determined that cost to be too high to worry with. This doesn’t mean Macs suck, it just means Macs are not a viable gaming platform for some companies and some games.

    Imagine if we saw reason instead of simply adding ourselves to the “Macs suck” bandwagon. What a world that would be – with logic and reason and understanding. Nah, just pissing on things is better.

    • Cornelius@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Wine is available for Mac, and Apple has started work on their game toolkit which was shown to run cyberpunk (albeit not well)

      So yeah, but you’re probably better off just dual booting asahi tbh.

      • loganthered@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Does Asahi have full support for the GPU yet? Would Proton work on a non-x86-x64 architecture? Last time I tried it (around 6 months back, been a minute) it worked great for anything that didn’t need acceleration but I didn’t think it could handle much more.

  • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Will there be any new Macs really? Isnt everything just some iPhone/ipad with iOS soonish? I doubt macs have any relevance in the future - just like last time when there was no Steve Jobs around. I mean there arent really any apps even for their watch… So why bother? Maybe they can just usw some cloudgaming …Apple ppl love paying and subscriptions.

    • ulkesh@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Millions of developers of numerous technologies use Macs. To say macs won’t have relevance in the future is clearly uninformed. As a gaming platform, sure, Macs leave plenty to be desired, but as development computers, they work extremely well, if overpriced.

      • Moonguide@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        They’re also the standard in some industries, inc. design and video production. At least where I’m at. Hate the OS with a passion but not having a mixed OS workplace sucks.

        • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          That is the past. I know Photoshop ppl are getting laid off everywhere and replaced by nuke,ai and so on.Does Apple even do new desktop Workstations? Is that coke can still a thing?

      • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Maybe. But who needs it? I say nobody. The poor Photoshop and illu guys are already getting replaced. There is no need for osx so there is no need for desktop Macs and macbooks will run IOS and be nothing but a superpowerd ipad. Innovation with Apple is zero - they the money to do a new chip but nobody devs anymore for the iwatch since the idea how Apple wants to make business is pretty dated.

        Meta app on iwatch …lol. 90s are calling and they want Apple back in the grave i hear. Or maybe Bill Gates can help them AGAIN?

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Let’s be real. You don’t HAVE to buy the loot boxes lmao. It’s not like they make you any better as a player.

      • Voyajer@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        CS skins are practically pay to lose thinking about it. They make you stand out against the map more.

        • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          …so is gaming in general. What’s your point?

          My point is that they’re just cosmetic, unlike gacha games or other free to play games where you’re FORCED to buy loot boxes to unlock good weapons and items.

          A casino REQUIRES you to spend money in order to participate. CS2 does not. Big difference.

            • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              That’s how it works on most games

              Not really. A bunch of F2P games have lootboxes that give you a chance at better weapons / characters early on instead of going through a long grind. The set of CS weapons is the same and does not change.

              The community gets upset when it becomes pay-to-win. I wouldn’t consider CS to be pay-to-win though so I find the casino comparison a bit inaccurate.

                • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  But I never argued it was

                  You’re the one who brought up the idea that the game is a casino. A casino is pay-to-win, because you literally have to pay money to participate and having more money gives you advantages.

                  This is not what CS is. You don’t have to pay money to participate and there are no upgrades weapons or characters as a result of paying more money.

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            1 year ago

            I haven’t checked in on Counter-Strike in a long time, but we can and should call out shitty business practices designed to exploit gambling addiction to make you play when you don’t want to. I’m not equipped to assess whether CS is designed that way, but gaming in general is not predatory and addicting in this way.

            • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              assess whether CS is designed that way

              It isn’t. There’s no grind to get better weapons so that you can remain competitive with other players and no paid lootboxes that give you an early advantage. You start out with the standard set of weapons just like any other player and that never changes. The only addicting thing about the boxes in CS2 is that they look cool but I’d say that that’s more on the player to decide whether they want it or not.

              It’s like saying providing the ability to paint your car is an addicting business practice, which I don’t really buy. This is not the same as pay-to-win and the distinction should be made here.

              • ampersandrew@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                You get no advantage from the battle passes in Street Fighter 6 either, but they’re still designed in such a way to keep you chasing the rewards. It can be scummy without being pay to win. But again, I don’t know what hooks CS2 has. Last I played CS:GO was when it was $15 and had no microtransactions.

                • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  But because they have no impact on the gameplay, the onus is entirely on the player whether they want it or not. At this point you’re basically saying that they made the battlepasses and lootboxes interesting and therefore they’re bad

    • aluminium@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Same is true for many other games that get shit for their Microtransactions. But Valve is on the “good guy” site, so rules don’t apply the same.