Basically like saying “I think tipping sucks and your boss should be rolling your pay into the meal. So I’m not going to tip you. That said, I’m also going to vote for the party that supports your boss offloading employee pay onto customer tips.”
It stopped being a cultural thing decades ago. Now it’s about about companies not paying employees a living wage and America’s right wing constantly blocking legislation that would force employers to pay people enough to have shelter and food.
After the Constitution was amended in the wake of the Civil War, slavery was ended as an institution but those who were freed from bondage were still limited in their choices. Many who did not end up sharecropping worked in menial positions, such as servants, waiters, barbers and railroad porters. These were pretty much the only occupations available to them. For restaurant workers and railroad porters, there was a catch: many employers would not actually pay these workers, under the condition that guests would offer a small tip instead.
I tip for exceptional service. If someone goes above and beyond what’s required of them, I leave a tip. I also tip if I make their lives more difficult that they should have been.
Dealing with our general public, during COVID definitely counts as both. Particularly with the number of people who couldn’t figure out how to wear a mask. At the same time, I also didn’t go out much during the pandemic, mostly due to the whole pandemic thing going on.
What is exceptional service? How is it different from bad service? As an introverted north european I never figured this out myself. For me good service means I don’t need to wait too long for my food/get the check but other than that I want to be left alone. I imagine I would find “good service” quite uncomfortable.
It’s generally context and individual specific. E.g. a bed delivery driver is paid to get it to your door. If they also lug it up the stairs to the loft room, that is exceptional service.
Another might be a restaurant team who deal particularly well with a food allergy. E.g. making specific checks of requirements, and going out of their way to make a dish in a safe manner. Rather than just saying it’s not an option.
Have you noticed all take aways have delivery charges in the UK since Covid? I assume it’s because few of us have cash about anymore so the drivers aren’t getting tipped.
Last time I tried to tip a delivery driver im the UK they said they can’t take it…
Given we pay for delivery though and it’s difficult to see what a driver could do above and beyond that isn’t just ‘doing their job’ that’s probably a good thing, provided they’re getting a decent amount of it.
But you see, this approach is an international problem on both sides of the tipping argument. Are you against tipping and think the worker should be compensated by their employer? That’s great. Do you believe in this philosophy enough to actually seek out politicians who will make sure employers compensate the workers? All around the world, it seems that nobody cares that much about workers when it’s time to vote. Workers in countries where tipping is not customary earn a crappy salary that does not allow them to live without depending on the kindness of their families. Good luck making yourself independent of your parents on a typical salary a waiter earns in Spain, for example. Workers in the USA where tipping is all the rage don’t do much better. You can work in the retail industry and earn minimum wage, or sometimes slightly higher than minimum wage and live out of your car or live with your parents. You can work at a restaurant and depend on tips and live out of your car. You can be a visiting professor of sociology at whatever university and live out of your car. In Spain, you can have a PhD and ghost write for full professors and live out of your car or you can wait tables and not have a car and live with your parents. I mean, really. There is no difference in the end. Wages from work are low all around the world. They are low in democratic countries because people care more about some other issue and not about the people who bring food to their table at a restaurant, no matter what kind of tipping culture is predominant in that democratic country.
It used to be quite the opposite. Tipping was big in Europe but not in the US.
That changed with Prohibition. When alcohol was banned, there was suddenly a large whole in the bottom line of restaurants across the US. They turned to having a tipped staff to stay open.
Sadly, when it was repealed, tipping stayed. It was since inflated from 10% to 15% to now over 20%.
Some have tried to get rid of it, but sadly it hasn’t worked.
Not always that easy is it, if you want to go out you have to find a place that advertises their no tipping policy. It’s go and don’t tip or stay at home or else take part in a shit system.
No, see if you go and dont tip, you’re still taking part in the shit system, just with a side of hurtin workers. The owners making just as much money and doesnt need to change what he’s doing.
So yeah, if anyone’s feeling guilty about not tipping then don’t. This should be a discussion between employees and their employers. Not customers and employees.
If the waiter is only making minimum wage in the U.S., considering what minimum wage is, that makes me feel sorry for them and even more inclined to give them a tip, because no one should have to survive on minimum wage.
What other job do you get when your experience is tipped work? Or do you go to school to take on debt that will set you back for a long time because the education system is shot too.
Ultimately, we need to tip people in the short term to keep them afloat until we can work with them in the long term to get America to the standard that most of the rest of the world takes, where tipping is a special case scenario only for exceptionally good work, and never to be needed or expected.
It really doesn’t have to be a “fact of life”, and it isn’t in many places, such as Australia and England – nations with very similar degrees of economic prosperity, and very similar cultures, to the USA.
People have tried and failed. But my point is, until that time you have to tip. I don’t care for people that don’t tip while arguing they are doing their server a favor. It is a disingenuous attempt to be cheap. A server’s paycheck should not be held hostage to a a war on tipping culture.
I’m always torn on this. I want to tip to help someone earn a living, but if enough of us stopped tipping employees would leave unless they were paid more. It does feel like adding suffering to the wrong people, but if out created change it would be nice eventually
I mean, you’re paying them either way. Businesses money for salaries comes from customers. It’s still silly and indirect, but it’s not like you wouldn’t be paying the workers’ salary anyway.
That’s where we eventually started getting feezer pizzas instead of take-out. Compared to the pain in the ass of ordering food (assuming the place is even open), it was easier just to throw one in the oven, and way cheaper too.
Without tipping their entirely hourly wage has to come out of what you pay for the meal. Thus the price of your meal will go up to make up for what they used to get in tips.
Or, maybe, the owners of the restaurant make slightly less profit and pay their employees a living wage.
There are a small number of restaurants across the US that actually do pay their servers and other employees reasonable hourly rates, and make it clear to patrons that they don’t accept tips. Prices are still reasonable and customers do continue coming back.
Or, maybe, the owners of the restaurant make slightly less profit and pay their employees a living wage.
And maybe landlord start handing over deeds to the people paying their mortgages. But we’re operating in reality and need to consider things that might happen.
If companies eat the cost of pay increases how will the executives afford that new yacht they’ve been eyeing?
I know it sounds really easy to get all huffy and self-righteous, but 60% of restaurants do not make it past the first year, and 80% go under in five years.
It’s hard out there. If the place isn’t making money, everyone loses their job.
You’re not wrong, but my point is that we’re dealing with laws of math here. You can’t just go “Just accept less profit” when the majority don’t make enough profit to survive. That money has to come from somewhere.
My mom ran a couple restaurants at different times in her life. She’s a high school drop-out who has never had a great job so it isn’t like she’s some high class capitalist. Both restaurants failed within a year or two, and she came out each time quite a bit worse than she went in. The company in charge of the building locked the doors and kept all her stuff in lieu of rent. It’s pretty brutal. She lost all the money she put into it well beyond any money she might have made on the business itself, and she went into debt each time as a result of the failing business as well.
I’d rather have that. Why is responsibility of covering wages shifting to the customer? And in return the blame? Sounds like a situation those in charge love, since instead of them being the bad guy they get to say “what an asshole customer right?” it’s their fault your take home pay is lower today.
Hiding behind the customer going darn then it’s out of my hands. Don’t got money to spare. Then they hop in their expensive car and drive to their expensive home instead of them being the ones to pay a proper wage for their employees.
Then the menu prices should be raised to pay a livable wage to the staff. If I can’t afford it I’ll eat at home. Don’t lure people in with the promise of one price and then guilt them into subsidizing your payroll off the book.
Tipping culture needs to go away, it’s not the norm elsewhere and it shouldn’t be here.
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Tipping is dumb, but tipping in Trump propaganda 10x dumb.
10x asshole move, I’d say.
Basically like saying “I think tipping sucks and your boss should be rolling your pay into the meal. So I’m not going to tip you. That said, I’m also going to vote for the party that supports your boss offloading employee pay onto customer tips.”
confused_jackie_chan.jpg
That’s way too complicated for them to understand. I’m not joking. We should all be very afraid of their weaponized stupidity. Idiocracy is here.
Tipping seems to be a cultural thing in the States.
Here in the UK we take the Mr. Pink approach to tipping.
It stopped being a cultural thing decades ago. Now it’s about about companies not paying employees a living wage and America’s right wing constantly blocking legislation that would force employers to pay people enough to have shelter and food.
It actually started as an economic thing too, because businesses during the great depression weren’t able to consistently pay living wages.
It was originally a way to be able to hire black people and not pay them
It started much earlier than that and has roots in racism. https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/
During the UK lockdowns, I tipped all the front line workers where I could. That’s it.
I’m not tipping someone as compensation for doing their job, that’s what their employer is for.
I tip for exceptional service. If someone goes above and beyond what’s required of them, I leave a tip. I also tip if I make their lives more difficult that they should have been.
Dealing with our general public, during COVID definitely counts as both. Particularly with the number of people who couldn’t figure out how to wear a mask. At the same time, I also didn’t go out much during the pandemic, mostly due to the whole pandemic thing going on.
What is exceptional service? How is it different from bad service? As an introverted north european I never figured this out myself. For me good service means I don’t need to wait too long for my food/get the check but other than that I want to be left alone. I imagine I would find “good service” quite uncomfortable.
It’s generally context and individual specific. E.g. a bed delivery driver is paid to get it to your door. If they also lug it up the stairs to the loft room, that is exceptional service.
Another might be a restaurant team who deal particularly well with a food allergy. E.g. making specific checks of requirements, and going out of their way to make a dish in a safe manner. Rather than just saying it’s not an option.
Have you noticed all take aways have delivery charges in the UK since Covid? I assume it’s because few of us have cash about anymore so the drivers aren’t getting tipped.
Last time I tried to tip a delivery driver im the UK they said they can’t take it…
Given we pay for delivery though and it’s difficult to see what a driver could do above and beyond that isn’t just ‘doing their job’ that’s probably a good thing, provided they’re getting a decent amount of it.
It’s about how fast it got there for me in the past, which I know isn’t always in their control, but there needs to be some criteria.
But you see, this approach is an international problem on both sides of the tipping argument. Are you against tipping and think the worker should be compensated by their employer? That’s great. Do you believe in this philosophy enough to actually seek out politicians who will make sure employers compensate the workers? All around the world, it seems that nobody cares that much about workers when it’s time to vote. Workers in countries where tipping is not customary earn a crappy salary that does not allow them to live without depending on the kindness of their families. Good luck making yourself independent of your parents on a typical salary a waiter earns in Spain, for example. Workers in the USA where tipping is all the rage don’t do much better. You can work in the retail industry and earn minimum wage, or sometimes slightly higher than minimum wage and live out of your car or live with your parents. You can work at a restaurant and depend on tips and live out of your car. You can be a visiting professor of sociology at whatever university and live out of your car. In Spain, you can have a PhD and ghost write for full professors and live out of your car or you can wait tables and not have a car and live with your parents. I mean, really. There is no difference in the end. Wages from work are low all around the world. They are low in democratic countries because people care more about some other issue and not about the people who bring food to their table at a restaurant, no matter what kind of tipping culture is predominant in that democratic country.
It used to be quite the opposite. Tipping was big in Europe but not in the US.
That changed with Prohibition. When alcohol was banned, there was suddenly a large whole in the bottom line of restaurants across the US. They turned to having a tipped staff to stay open.
Sadly, when it was repealed, tipping stayed. It was since inflated from 10% to 15% to now over 20%.
Some have tried to get rid of it, but sadly it hasn’t worked.
It dates back further than that. It was a great way to not pay recently freed slaves as much as white people during the Jim Crow south.
if you’re wanting to protest those businesses, you might wanna start with not buying from them in the first place.
Not always that easy is it, if you want to go out you have to find a place that advertises their no tipping policy. It’s go and don’t tip or stay at home or else take part in a shit system.
No, see if you go and dont tip, you’re still taking part in the shit system, just with a side of hurtin workers. The owners making just as much money and doesnt need to change what he’s doing.
No.
If employees are earning below the minimum wage then the employer has to pay the difference.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy-reference-guide-flsa#3
So yeah, if anyone’s feeling guilty about not tipping then don’t. This should be a discussion between employees and their employers. Not customers and employees.
If the waiter is only making minimum wage in the U.S., considering what minimum wage is, that makes me feel sorry for them and even more inclined to give them a tip, because no one should have to survive on minimum wage.
Thing people forget is that the employer will just fire the employee for “lack of performance” or some bullshit.
There are virtually no worker protections in the US, and, as consumers, we need to stop feeding the greedy beasts that run restaurants.
And don’t forget, wage theft totals more than all other theft combined: https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-workers-hundreds/
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The problem is that not tipping doesn’t punish the people creating the tipping issue, just making the people who are oppressed by it suffer more.
Disliking tipping is no reason to screw hardworking people over. Tipping is a fact of life, even if you think it’s dumb.
But it doesn’t have to be if the employers pay how they should
Sure but until they do a lot of those people need tips to get by and it’s far from as easy as “just get a different job”
Source: used to be one such person
With unemployment numbers so low right now, this is actually the time to “just get another job”. In the USA, at least.
Have you tried?
What other job do you get when your experience is tipped work? Or do you go to school to take on debt that will set you back for a long time because the education system is shot too.
Until they do? When is that going to be? When US government makes tipping illegal?
Ultimately, we need to tip people in the short term to keep them afloat until we can work with them in the long term to get America to the standard that most of the rest of the world takes, where tipping is a special case scenario only for exceptionally good work, and never to be needed or expected.
It really doesn’t have to be a “fact of life”, and it isn’t in many places, such as Australia and England – nations with very similar degrees of economic prosperity, and very similar cultures, to the USA.
People have tried and failed. But my point is, until that time you have to tip. I don’t care for people that don’t tip while arguing they are doing their server a favor. It is a disingenuous attempt to be cheap. A server’s paycheck should not be held hostage to a a war on tipping culture.
I don’t see them saying they don’t tip, but arguing against the system in place. Which are two separate things.
Or, employers could pay their workers better.
Novel thought, right?
And you think not tipping your server today, before they get those wages, will make that happen?
Sorry, Mr. Pink. Being an asshole to your server does not make you somehow pro-worker.
Yes. By not showing up at all.
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This is a fairly good bellwether to see who’s progressive and who’s a champagne socialist.
I’m always torn on this. I want to tip to help someone earn a living, but if enough of us stopped tipping employees would leave unless they were paid more. It does feel like adding suffering to the wrong people, but if out created change it would be nice eventually
A better solution is to flat out not patronize businesses that do tips
I like eating food though :/
There are all manner of grocery stores that sell that
Because it comes from a history of slavery. Pushing it on to you, the customer, to pay the underpaid employee so the boss man doesn’t have to.
not “could” but “are legally obliged to, by federal law”
I mean, you’re paying them either way. Businesses money for salaries comes from customers. It’s still silly and indirect, but it’s not like you wouldn’t be paying the workers’ salary anyway.
It hides the true cost of the meal and allows both the employee and the employer to avoid taxes on this part of the “salary”
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As a Brit this seems like such a ridiculous attitude to have.
When you go out for food you are paying for:
If you’re dining in you also get:
If you are getting delivery you instead pay for someone to bring it to you.
The food itself is like 40% of what you’re paying for, the rest is just convenience and atmosphere.
That’s where we eventually started getting feezer pizzas instead of take-out. Compared to the pain in the ass of ordering food (assuming the place is even open), it was easier just to throw one in the oven, and way cheaper too.
You’re paying for both.
Without tipping their entirely hourly wage has to come out of what you pay for the meal. Thus the price of your meal will go up to make up for what they used to get in tips.
Or, maybe, the owners of the restaurant make slightly less profit and pay their employees a living wage.
There are a small number of restaurants across the US that actually do pay their servers and other employees reasonable hourly rates, and make it clear to patrons that they don’t accept tips. Prices are still reasonable and customers do continue coming back.
And maybe landlord start handing over deeds to the people paying their mortgages. But we’re operating in reality and need to consider things that might happen.
If companies eat the cost of pay increases how will the executives afford that new yacht they’ve been eyeing?
I know it sounds really easy to get all huffy and self-righteous, but 60% of restaurants do not make it past the first year, and 80% go under in five years.
It’s hard out there. If the place isn’t making money, everyone loses their job.
Yeah, but then it shouldn’t really exist as a business in the first place according to the rules of capitalism, should it?
You’re not wrong, but my point is that we’re dealing with laws of math here. You can’t just go “Just accept less profit” when the majority don’t make enough profit to survive. That money has to come from somewhere.
My mom ran a couple restaurants at different times in her life. She’s a high school drop-out who has never had a great job so it isn’t like she’s some high class capitalist. Both restaurants failed within a year or two, and she came out each time quite a bit worse than she went in. The company in charge of the building locked the doors and kept all her stuff in lieu of rent. It’s pretty brutal. She lost all the money she put into it well beyond any money she might have made on the business itself, and she went into debt each time as a result of the failing business as well.
I’d rather have that. Why is responsibility of covering wages shifting to the customer? And in return the blame? Sounds like a situation those in charge love, since instead of them being the bad guy they get to say “what an asshole customer right?” it’s their fault your take home pay is lower today.
Hiding behind the customer going darn then it’s out of my hands. Don’t got money to spare. Then they hop in their expensive car and drive to their expensive home instead of them being the ones to pay a proper wage for their employees.
Sounds like a misleading system all around.
And that is how it works in all other civilised countries. One should think it would be possible to work in the US as well.
Then the menu prices should be raised to pay a livable wage to the staff. If I can’t afford it I’ll eat at home. Don’t lure people in with the promise of one price and then guilt them into subsidizing your payroll off the book.
Tipping culture needs to go away, it’s not the norm elsewhere and it shouldn’t be here.
Yeah, people don’t likes hidden charges or surprise fees. It’s “optional” but not really if you want to be a part of society.
Good. Pay workers more.